diff --git a/manage.cpp b/manage.cpp
index 299ac46601..66bc8a4098 100644
--- a/manage.cpp
+++ b/manage.cpp
@@ -227,18 +227,22 @@ bool Client::manage( Window w, bool isMapped )
         placementDone = true;
         }
 
-    if ( isMapped || session || placementDone
-         || ( isTransient() && !isUtility() && !isDialog() && !isSplash())) 
-        {  // TODO
-        placementDone = TRUE;
-        }
+    bool usePosition = false;
+    if ( isMapped || session || placementDone )
+        placementDone = true; // use geometry
+    else if( isTransient() && !isUtility() && !isDialog() && !isSplash())
+        usePosition = true;
     else if( isTransient() && !hasNETSupport())
-        placementDone = true;
-    else if( isDialog() && hasNETSupport()) // see Placement::placeDialog()
+        usePosition = true;
+    else if( isDialog() && hasNETSupport())
+    // if the dialog is actually non-NETWM transient window, don't try to apply placement to it,
+    // it breaks with too many things (xmms, display)
         ; // force using placement policy
     else if( isSplash())
         ; // force using placement policy
     else
+        usePosition = true;
+    if( !rules()->checkIgnorePosition( !usePosition ))
         {
         bool ignorePPosition = ( options->ignorePositionClasses.contains(QString::fromLatin1(resourceClass())));
 
@@ -249,11 +253,12 @@ bool Client::manage( Window w, bool isMapped )
             // disobey xinerama placement option for now (#70943)
             area = workspace()->clientArea( PlacementArea, geom.center(), desktop());
             }
+        }
+    if( true ) // size is always obeyed for now, only with constraints applied
         if ( (xSizeHint.flags & USSize) || (xSizeHint.flags & PSize) ) 
             {
             // keep in mind that we now actually have a size :-)
             }
-        }
 
     if (xSizeHint.flags & PMaxSize)
         geom.setSize( geom.size().boundedTo(
diff --git a/placement.cpp b/placement.cpp
index 348989dcd6..bc09909d01 100644
--- a/placement.cpp
+++ b/placement.cpp
@@ -418,10 +418,6 @@ void Placement::placeUtility(Client* c, QRect& area )
 
 void Placement::placeDialog(Client* c, QRect& area )
     {
-    // if the dialog is actually non-NETWM transient window, don't apply placement to it,
-    // it breaks with too many things (xmms, display)
-    if( !c->hasNETSupport())
-        return;
     placeOnMainWindow( c, area );
     }
 
diff --git a/rules.cpp b/rules.cpp
index c4bba4ec17..56ac378014 100644
--- a/rules.cpp
+++ b/rules.cpp
@@ -37,6 +37,7 @@ Rules::Rules()
     , sizerule( UnusedSetRule )
     , minsizerule( UnusedForceRule )
     , maxsizerule( UnusedForceRule )
+    , ignorepositionrule( UnusedForceRule )
     , desktoprule( UnusedSetRule )
     , typerule( UnusedForceRule )
     , maximizevertrule( UnusedSetRule )
@@ -126,6 +127,7 @@ void Rules::readFromCfg( KConfig& cfg )
     READ_FORCE_RULE( maxsize, Size, );
     if( maxsize.isEmpty())
         maxsizerule = UnusedForceRule;
+    READ_FORCE_RULE( ignoreposition, Bool, );
     READ_SET_RULE( desktop, Num, );
     type = readType( cfg, "type" );
     typerule = type != NET::Unknown ? readForceRule( cfg, "typerule" ) : UnusedForceRule;
@@ -211,6 +213,7 @@ void Rules::write( KConfig& cfg ) const
     WRITE_SET_RULE( size, );
     WRITE_FORCE_RULE( minsize, );
     WRITE_FORCE_RULE( maxsize, );
+    WRITE_FORCE_RULE( ignoreposition, );
     WRITE_SET_RULE( desktop, );
     WRITE_FORCE_RULE( type, );
     WRITE_SET_RULE( maximizevert, );
@@ -430,6 +433,7 @@ bool Rules::applySize( QSize& s, bool init ) const
 
 APPLY_FORCE_RULE( minsize, MinSize, QSize )
 APPLY_FORCE_RULE( maxsize, MaxSize, QSize )
+APPLY_FORCE_RULE( ignoreposition, IgnorePosition, bool )
 APPLY_RULE( desktop, Desktop, int )
 APPLY_FORCE_RULE( type, Type, NET::WindowType )
 
@@ -572,6 +576,7 @@ CHECK_RULE( Position, QPoint )
 CHECK_RULE( Size, QSize )
 CHECK_FORCE_RULE( MinSize, QSize )
 CHECK_FORCE_RULE( MaxSize, QSize )
+CHECK_FORCE_RULE( IgnorePosition, bool )
 CHECK_RULE( Desktop, int )
 CHECK_FORCE_RULE( Type, NET::WindowType )
 CHECK_RULE( MaximizeVert, KDecorationDefines::MaximizeMode )
diff --git a/rules.h b/rules.h
index 494d84110f..c0259c10ab 100644
--- a/rules.h
+++ b/rules.h
@@ -45,6 +45,7 @@ class WindowRules
         QSize checkSize( QSize s, bool init = false ) const;
         QSize checkMinSize( QSize s ) const;
         QSize checkMaxSize( QSize s ) const;
+        bool checkIgnorePosition( bool ignore ) const;
         int checkDesktop( int desktop, bool init = false ) const;
         NET::WindowType checkType( NET::WindowType type ) const;
         MaximizeMode checkMaximize( MaximizeMode mode, bool init = false ) const;
@@ -85,6 +86,7 @@ class Rules
         bool applySize( QSize& s, bool init ) const;
         bool applyMinSize( QSize& s ) const;
         bool applyMaxSize( QSize& s ) const;
+        bool applyIgnorePosition( bool& ignore ) const;
         bool applyDesktop( int& desktop, bool init ) const;
         bool applyType( NET::WindowType& type ) const;
         bool applyMaximizeVert( MaximizeMode& mode, bool init ) const;
@@ -151,6 +153,8 @@ class Rules
         ForceRule minsizerule;
         QSize maxsize;
         ForceRule maxsizerule;
+        bool ignoreposition;
+        ForceRule ignorepositionrule;
         int desktop;
         SetRule desktoprule;
         NET::WindowType type; // type for setting